transcript

This text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI's THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI's THE WORLD is the program audio.

LISA MULLINS: During tomorrow's meeting at the White House, Afghanistan's leader Hamid Karzai is expected to press for more US aid to his country. But he told an audience at the Brookings Institution today that money alone won't do the trick.

HAMID KARZAI: Money can't buy you love, as you say it in America – no matter how much it is. And force won't buy you obedience, no matter how much it is. Therefore, we have to sit down and think of how we, in cooperation with each other, go forward towards a common objective.

MULLINS: One issue that Hamid Karzai has often raised with the United States is the civilian deaths that result from American air strikes. Today, there were two more. The US says it's investigating reports of heavy civilian casualties as a result of fighting in Western Afghanistan. Former reporter Sarah Chayes advises the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force. She has lived in Afghanistan since 2001, and she says Afghans are weary of war and angry at the warriors.

SARAH CHAYES: I think there's definitely a rising frustration on the part of the Afghan population, not just with cases of, you know. wrongful death of civilians caused by the international military forces, but especially by the behavior toward the Afghan population of government officials that we are seen as supporting. There's also a real understanding on the part of the Afghan population that the folks doing most of the killing of innocent civilians are the Taliban – except they don't feel safe to express that, because they can express anger or concern about civilian casualties caused by the international coalition without fearing physical backlash.

MULLINS: Well, interesting to note right now what's happening in terms of the presidency of Hamid Karzai and the reputation surrounding a man who he has chosen as his chief Vice Presidential running mate. There are apparently two Vice Presidents there. He would be the lead Vice President if Karzai gets re-elected in August. This man is Mohammed Qasim Fahim, and he has, as we said, quite a reputation. Apparently, it did not stop Hamid Karzai from tapping him for this job. Can you tell us about this man and about how this choice by Hamid Karzai reflects what's happening within the government of Afghanistan?

CHAYES: As you suggest, this is a gentleman with a really terrible reputation inside Afghanistan. There was a very serious period of basically civil war after the withdrawal of the Soviet Union in 1989 and until the arrival of the Taliban in 1994 and which really caused people to accept the arrival of the Taliban. And this guy, Fahim, was really responsible for a lot of it, for leveling full neighborhoods in Kabul. And so for President Karzai to tap him as a Vice Presidential candidate is really almost an insult to the desires of the Afghan population for a new departure. And what I actually think President Karzai is doing is playing politics very adroitly. There's another – an opposition candidate that Marshall Fahim might have put his weight behind who would therefore have had a lot of support. And what Karzai is trying to do is basically short-circuit that possibility by bringing Fahim over. And then what he's likely to do is turn around and tell Fahim, “You know what? The West really wouldn't let me do it.”

MULLINS: Ah.

CHAYES: “Wouldn't let me name you.” So he's trying to gain points with both constituencies at the same time.

MULLINS: And how many points right now does President Karzai have, in terms of Washington's outlook? He's meeting with President Obama tomorrow. Karzai was once a favorite of Washington during the Bush administration. What's his status right now?

CHAYES: I think there's a real understanding that the relationship with President Karzai or whoever takes this upcoming election has to be a little bit different, in that the Afghan people are the prize here and they have really been suffering under some of the ways that Afghan government officials have been behaving. And I think there is a sense in Washington that, “we've got to come to grips with that. We've got to grapple with it. We've got to change our own ways of contracting, our own ways of interacting with Afghan government officials to try to influence them to be a little more responsive to the needs of their own people.”

MULLINS: We're hearing from members of the Taliban that number one, in Afghanistan, they want the United States out. They want the American forces out, and that they expect that they are ultimately going to be victorious in terms of running Afghanistan once again. To what extent do the people who you're advising believe the Taliban have a real chance at being victorious in Afghanistan?

CHAYES: Oh, not at all. Not at all. They're actually a very weak and scattered force -- really the problem is that there hasn't been a positive draw for the Afghan population, and I think that's the direction we'll be looking at, is you know, how do we turn the government and what it provides to its people into something that the people are happy to live under? And then the Afghan population can defend themselves against the Taliban. I mean, it's nothing like the Muja Hadin who were fighting against the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

MULLINS: Sarah Chayes, thank you.

CHAYES: Thanks for having me.

MULLINS: Former reporter Sarah Chayes advises the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force. She also runs the Arghand Cooperative in Kandahar.

Copyright ©2008 PRI's THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI's THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World's Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.