transcript

This text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI's THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI's THE WORLD is the program audio.

LISA MULLINS: I'm Lisa Mullins. This is The World. The year was 1985. The place? The West African nation of Liberia. There had just been an attempted coup against Dictator Samuel Doe. The coup failed, and government soldiers were rounding up Doe's critics. One critic was Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. Today, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf is President of Liberia. But on that day 24 years ago, Sirleaf's fate rested in the hands of the soldiers who were driving her toward their barracks.

ELLEN JOHNSON SIRLEAF: We drove toward the camp. They turned off the road and headed toward the beach, and got to a certain place and said, “You know, this is where you're going to die. We're going to bury you alive right here.” And I looked back at them and looked in their eyes and said, you know, “Would you like it if somebody killed your mother in this manner?” And then they would look back at me and then they turned the Jeep around and said, “Okay. We're not going to do it today. We're going to take you to the camp. And tomorrow for sure – we're going to kill you tomorrow.” And we went to the camp, and you know, I was thrown into the cell with other young men who were already there. They took the laces from my sneakers and they used some of that to tie the wrists of some of the men, one to the other. And not too long thereafter, they took all of the men out. I heard gunshots in the background sometime later, and those men never returned. And I think that was one of the really, really most difficult period of my experience. And that encounter brought me perhaps as close as I've ever been to really facing difficult times, even death.

MULLINS: Do you think, President Sirleaf, that being a woman has protected you in any way? Not only now as President, but previous to this?

PRESIDENT SIRLEAF: Yes, I think so, because basically there is still some regard for motherhood. And at my age, you know, I think looking at me, there's still a little bit of regard, I think, for a woman.

MULLINS: What's your age right now?

PRESIDENT SIRLEAF: 70.

MULLINS: You're 70 years old. You were elected to office at 67. Did you become leader of Liberia in part because you're a woman or in spite of it?

PRESIDENT SIRLEAF: I have to say both. Women became my greatest constituency. Women took the position that men have ruled our country for over 140 years, and that it was time for a woman to be given the opportunity. And so the women rallied -- but it takes the other side of me that's called the Iron Lady.

MULLINS: This is one of your many nicknames, The Iron Lady.

PRESIDENT SIRLEAF: That's right.

MULLINS: Da Woman is another one? You can say that better than I can, I'm sure.

PRESIDENT SIRLEAF: Iron Lady, Dat Woman, Ol' Ma.

MULLINS: Ma?

SIRLEAF: All of those. But it does take the courage to be able to take hard decisions.
MULLINS: Where would you put your progress at this point? What do you take pride in right now?

SIRLEAF: I take pride in the progress we've made on our development agenda. We were very clear in establishing our vision, in formulating our agenda, in setting our goals for peace and security -- revitalizing our economy, promoting good governance and rule of law, restoring infrastructure and basic services. Those are our four – what we call our four pillars. The area where we're struggling is good governance; corruption is still a problem. Something we inherited but today it's under threat because it's being exposed.

MULLINS: I want to ask you about some people who you have appointed who have been accused of corruption. I wonder to what extent, when you come into a country like that, where corruption has been so well steeped, how you are able to stay apart from it? And this shows how difficult it is, I think, in a country like Liberia and many other countries -- if you try to get ahead, you find yourself having to deal with people like Samuel Doe or Charles Taylor – people who are considered absolute brutal leaders, war criminals in some cases. I mean, does one have to make compromises and deal with the most unsavory characters to get where you are?

SIRLEAF: One reaches a very, very strong dilemma when you find people who you've appointed who have the professional competence and quality and they violate the public trust. And our capacity is so low that you can't find a ready replacement, and you say, “What do I do?”

MULLINS: How do you decide what to do? I mean, what's the thought process that goes in your mind? Because I'm sure that there are compromises you have to make that you feel uncomfortable with. I mean, when your party is supporting Charles Taylor as he's trying to stage a coup of the then-President Samuel Doe. How do you reconcile that with the man who Charles Taylor turned out to be?

SIRLEAF: Well, like I say, one can try to make compromises, but at the end of the day, you've got to be able to stop to the place where that begins to tug at your own character and your own commitment. I face that day to day as we try to manage the affairs of state, and I get criticized sometimes because in trying to understand and accept these compromises, sometimes there are delays in making those hard decisions. But at the end of the day, don't they have to be made?

MULLINS: President Sirleaf, we end our program every day with music. And I have a feeling you're the kind of person who loves the music of your country and could even name for us perhaps one song, one group, one performer who you would like us to end the show with? Anything in particular that you're listening to now?

SIRLEAF: I don't know if you have Sundaygar Dearboy's recordings. That's the one I would like.

MULLINS: What's the name again?

SIRLEAF: It's one called “Give Us Hope” But it's one that is played on the radio in the morning when they have a show that's called “Conversation with the President” and people get on the air and talk to me. And that's the background music. Give us hope, give us hope.

MULLINS: President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, President of Liberia. Her new book is called “This Child Will Be Great: Memoir of a Remarkable Life.” Good to speak with you.

SIRLEAF: Good to speak with you, Lisa.

MULLINS: “Give Us Hope” was the choice of President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf for today's Global Hit. The performer there is Sundaygar Dearboy. And he, like, Ms. Sirleaf, has an interesting past. Dearboy was a member of Charles Taylor's rebel movement. Liberian witnesses have testified that Dearboy raped a young woman and murdered several people back then. He denies the allegations, though, but they lend shall we say an ironic touch to Sirleaf's choice of “Give Us Hope”. The President's son tells us that the President is aware of the accusations, but he says, the Civil War has touched everyone in Liberia. And his mother, he says, is part of the process of healing. The World is online all the time at theworld.org. From the Nan and Bill Harris Studios at WGBH in Boston, I'm Lisa Mullins. Thanks for listening.

Copyright ©2008 PRI's THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI's THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World's Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.